During the war of the ring did Sauron or Saruman actually win any major battles?

Question

I've recently re-read the Lord of the Rings and one thing that simply bugs me and makes Tolkien's books seem lesser is the fact Sauron and Saruman seem to lose every battle. I sincerely hope that I've missed some info or forgot some battles that Sauron or Saruman won, because like I said the fact that both always seems to lose kinda takes any danger away from the story.

Battles Saruman and Sauron both lose during war of the ring or slightly before (e.g. time of The Hobbit)


Sauron defeated by white council

Nazgul fail to capture ring at Weathertop (I know they thought they had finished Frodo off by stabbing him with a Morgul blade)

Siege of Minas Tirith

Battle of Helm's Deep

Sauron personally losing a battle of wills with Gandalf when trying to pinpoint Frodo while he is wearing the ring at Amon Hen

Saruman defeated by the Ents

Anyway you get my point, and I know that some defeats that both suffered couldn't be helped but the fact both never seem to win any battles takes a little bit away from LOTR for me.

Answer 1

Souron can hardly be said to have been defeated by the White Council it was ruse on his part to pull their attention there, he simply "fell back" to Morder and almost immediately reoccupied Dol Guldur.



The Fellowship got its *** kicked in Moria.

Boromir got his *** kicked.

Gondor lost the Battle of Osgiliath where Farmir got his *** kicked.

The Battle of the Pelennor Fields was not decisive as it is stated there is still another army unfought near the city.

The Army that marches on Morder more or less is lost too prior the the Deus ex Mechina.



The background battles we are told of are almost all victories for Souron. The one where theodens sun dies, the attack of the orcs that rescued Gollum from the Mirkwood elves, all the battles that destoed Anor and reduced Gondor to its current size. Even victorious battles were accompanied by so much loss that they acomplished little in the long run ( the war of the dwarves and the orcs).



If you go furthur back, Elves and men really didn't win anything but minor skirmishes in the first age. In the Second, Souron surrendered to Numenor and conquired them from within. While he lost the last battle, man and elves hadn't even fully recovered at the end of the third age.



It is also made very clear that the war of the rings was also a Pyrrhic victory - the elves all leave ( arwen dies alone in a deserted Lorian), it is heavily implied that the ents will soon be gone, Dain is dead, Theoden is dead, Denathor is dead, it is implied the Dwarves will soon be gone ( Dain's heir being the last of his line.), etc.



If there is a theme that runs through out it is try as we might and gain a victory here and there, the war is ultimately hopeless. lotr just chooses to focus on the temporary victory.

Answer 2

I'm having trouble following your line of thinking on this. The Lord of the Rings story is the END culmination of all that was wrought since the world (Arda) was made.

Saruman was initially one of the good guys. A Maia (as was Gandalf and the other Istari, and Sauron as well) he was sent to help the peoples of Middle-earth in their fight to defeat Sauron. He studied the Ring stuff too deeply and lost his way. He was also jealous of Gandalf who kept to the original plan, even thought he was forced by his Vala into the job when Saruman gladly went, and when he found out Cirdan had given Gandalf his Ring of Power, one of the 3 Elven Rings after Saruman had been studying and craving the power it would give....he was forever disdainful of the true-hearted and much wiser Gandalf.

Saruman won the battle of gaining the trust of the White Council, and swayed everyone's will until Gandalf caught him. The battles where he sent his own special Uruk-Hai were doomed to failure. It was his own ego and power lust that did him in. That was the point of his story. Here was the head of the White Order of Istari, the "wisest", who spent millenia in Middle-earth before the others arrived....who used the power of his voice to sway others to his will, a no-no, who only helped drive Sauron out of Dol Guldur to help facilitate his own search for the One. he should've been what Gandalf was. But he chose his own selfish powermongering and sincerely wished to own the One and throw Sauron down, but then be the boss. How he ended in The Shire....shriveled and no trace of the great being he had been, crooked wisdom and ordering poor Grima Wormtongue to eat Lotho Pimple...and ordering evil men to boss Hobbits around. Massive FAIL.

Sauron, however was simply continuing the work he started under Morgoth's tutelage. Between the two of them, a great deal of damage was done, and they worked ruin everywhere they went. As to his final fall, and the possiblilty of taking shape again...

Gandalf had predicted what the destruction of the Ring would mean to Sauron: "If it is destroyed, then he will fall, and his fall will be so low that none can foresee his arising ever again. For he will lose the best part of the strength that was native to him in his beginning, and all that was made or begun with that power will crumble, and he will be maimed for ever, becoming a mere spirit of malice that gnaws itself in the shadows, but cannot again grow or take shape. And so a great evil of this world will be removed."

Answer 3

You're ignoring that in order to lay siege to Minas Tirith, they won all the battles before that taking Ithilien and the fords.

Answer 4

It's in the Simarillion I believe. Yes, he did, it's even referenced in the movie where they show the ring being severed from the hand. Evil was winning up till that point.